Last week, I wrote a piece for Uproxx weighing the strengths of 2007’s Boxer against the other albums in The National’s formidable catalog.

In spite of strong contenders like 2005’s Alligator, 2010’s High Violet, and 2013’s Trouble Will Find Me, I ultimately decided that Boxer is the best album The National has yet made.

I had so much fun delving into the minutia of The National’s career that I decided to call up another super-fan, Chris DeVille of Stereogum, in order to discuss what exactly makes Boxer so special, as well as its ultimate place in the pantheon of National records and 21st century indie-rock overall.

Join us as we walk through this album, and measure it against the other albums in the band’s discography.